HoL’s Musings: Sonic needs another shot at an RPG

33 Comments

1. It would feel nice for Sonic to feel a little more Japanese in style and tone again, but let’s not forget that half of who he is came from America. If Sega of Japan had never collaborated with Sega of America when they were first conceiving Sonic, he would have been so much different from what he is now, probably worse. To me Sonic has always been about trying to hit just the right balance of Eastern and Western influence. While Sonic’s environments and other tropes tend to be a bit Japanese in nature, a lot of his personality and what makes him cool to everyone is very heavily American inspired (I mean, radical lingo and chili dogs? Come on, Japan couldn’t come up with that even if they tried). Sonic is the best of both worlds wrapped into one. Still, it does feel like lately things have been a little too saturated in American deep fryer grease, so maybe we could use a little more soy and sushi on our chili dogs for a year or two until things can balance out again. It’s never fun when something so shared between cultures feels more relevant to one and not the other (*coughKingdomHeartsReleaseDatescough*), so hopefully things will feel a little more balanced again soon, especially with the 25th Anniversary coming up.

   1. “Still, it does feel like lately things have been a little too saturated in American deep fryer grease, so maybe we could use a little more soy and sushi on our chili dogs for a year or two until things can balance out again.”
      That is a beautiful way to put it. 😉
      And yes, the 25th anniversary will determine a lot I’m sure.

      1. Not that I would actually try that with chili dogs in real life tho, ulggh! X)”

         1. Ha, of course.

2. Wait… people didn’t like Sonic Chronicles? Is this really the majority opinion? I thought it got a pretty warm reception from fans and critics? I at least found it actually enjoyable. It’s not like it was plagued with glitches or poor writing. I really think Bioware had shown their work in terms of how well the Sonic mythos was represented. Heck, Sonic Team themselves barely seems to acknowledge the Sonic mythos, so it was really refreshing to me. Not to mention they gave good characterization to characters who previously had little to none. Like Big. Most people were annoyed by him for being an overall pointless nuisance, but in Chronicles I found his dialogue to be some of the most entertaining in the game. Again, this is mostly my opinion, but I really thought people liked Chronicles.

   1. You’ve got a friend in me because I like Chronicles too. I know what you mean about Bioware doing a better job representing the mythos. They mentioned Gizoids! Gizoids of all things! Then the Emerl reference! It was beautiful! Not to mention how we got the identity of the echidna tribe that Knuckles’ tribe was fighting against in Sonic Adventure. Knuckles’ tribe tried abusing the power of the Master Emerald so they could get the upper hand over Ix and the Nocturne tribe along with their creations- the gizoids. We all know what happened though when they went for the Master Emerald… Chaos wiped them out. So the Nocturne were victorious! But then we learn about how they got sucked into the negaverse or whatever the proper name of that dimension is. Thus, there were no echidna’s left at all but apparently one gizoid managed to stay in Sonic’s world, and that gizoid would be Emerl. This game makes everything make sense! I’m sorry if I was too wordy, but I just had to fully express the greatness I believe Chronicles had.

   2. Trust me, your not alone buddy. I personally really enjoyed the story in chronicles.

   3. I enjoyed it a good deal too, but it did get mixed reception from fans and critics alike. As much as I loved it, I did have a few problems with it too. Its still a shame that it seems to be discontinued, and with that huge cliffhanger ending too.

   4. I love Sonic Chronicles but I think the gameplay and music were mediocre, I love the story, the exploration, heck I think the game has one of the best characterizations of the franchise (cool Knuckles anyone?), I was really hoping for a sequel of this game but I think the gameplay should be retooled completely and that they should bring the usual people to make the music for the game.

3. I love that you brought up this topic! I personally enjoyed Sonic Chronicles… a lot. The reason why however is probably because I was nine years old when I played the game so a ton of problems I’d probably have with the game at a later age went fully unseen. Sonic Chronicles’ dialogue system and story was absolutely beautiful in my opinion. Thus, I feel it set the standards very high. So whoever makes the next Sonic RPG better do just as well in that department or else I will be disappointed. The game play should see improvement however, but I hope that the spotlight for certain characters in battle is retained in some way- like when someone would use their POW move, the turn list would go away in place for an awesome portrait of the character. I guess what I’m trying to say is- I hope that the many things Chronicles did right are realized and then whatever needs improvement can get it. As for what developer would complete such a task? Hmmm… ehhh… Gamefreak? If they were willing to work with SEGA for Tembo, maybe they’d be willing to do more.

4. Hate to say it, but I kind of heavily disagree with your direction to the point that I feel it would destroy what makes Sonic so great if they did follow it. Primarily because you focus so much on “Sonic should be anime” that it almost seems insulting, and rather than discussing gameplay elements as well as what Chronicles did right and how to build from there, you just kind of bash the game and pretend that like 06, everyone automatically hates it (Chronicles may not have been popular, but it did generally do well for those who did play it).

   Part of what makes Sonic so great particularly in the west is how much of a balance of western and eastern influence there is on him without being too obvious towards one way or the other, but on top of that, there’s a third variable. Sonic as a character stands out as a mascot that defines who he wants to be and sets his own trail, no matter what, and through many experiments, he finds his niche in being one of the only franchises willing to be a little bit of everything while still keeping to his cartoony hedgehog like appearance. Giving him more of a japanese influence given the examples you posted would be just Shadow the Hedgehog or Sonic Adventure 2 all over again, but for Japan, where Sonic would be defined by Anime tropes and attract a crowd that would limit him to being nothing more than that, just as Sega honestly believed that having Sonic swear and centering the story around war and guns and the US Government stand in would attract an all around audience (I did enjoy the gameplay of Shadow, but the story….deep, but not fitting for Sonic). Not to mention, they already did Sonic X, which was a Sonic Anime full and through, and…..it’s often rated the worst of the Sonic Television shows (Hello, Chris Thorndyke, to name a few examples of why).

   Personally I think that if they were to make another Sonic RPG, I think they should go the route of Mario RPGs’ styles. Appeal to the mass audience and captivate children who may potentially grow up with him (like they did the Boom TV show). Don’t make Sonic’s debut in RPGs appeal to only a niche. Mario RPGs are a genre all their own, yet have such a massive appeal because of it’s kid friendly and open minded nature.

   1. I see what you mean with the Mario RPGs. Bowser’s inside story must have been my second ever RPG right after Chronicles (Unless if you count Super Paper Mario) and I loved it. As for the Sonic X point, I think Sonic X is absolutely amazing. While I feel it’s pathetic, I do understand why people loathe Chris Thorndyke though thus ruining the show for them. But similar to what I said in another comment here, I was nine at the time and at that age everything I saw in the show was true brilliance.

   2. Like I said, the balance is what makes Sonic so successful. However I think the main concern here is that lately things have been a little too Americanized lately, what with the main story writers being from Happy Tree Friends, Sonic Boom geared to be an American exclusive experience made by American developers…suddenly shared with Japan because GIMME GIMME GIMME logic, and the more snarky and sarcastic tone the dialogue has been leaning towards for the past 5 years. On it’s own none of this would be a bad thing (well, except for maybe Graff and Pontac as the writers, I’ve always had doubts about those guys ever since I learned what they worked on before Sonic), the only problem is that lately they’re all we’ve been getting of Sonic and the games’ personalities, along with the at this point long-overstayed welcome of the Nostalgia/Neo-Genesis era, with so little usage of the Eastern features that made Sonic appealing to many for the past 20 years and little acknowledgement of any era that wasn’t on the Genesis. Of course Sonic shouldn’t be totally anime-esque to the point where Roger Craig Smith has to try and sound as passionate as anime veteran Jason Griffith, but there should be more of a return to the more balanced amount of influences that were present in Sonic’s 1-3K, CD, Adventure 1 & 2, Heroes (kind of felt a little more heavy on the American side, but still had a bit of Japanness to it), and Unleashed. 2006 is probably an example of how something like Sonic can feel a little too Japanese, as solely focusing on the story it feels like it dives into a lot of themes and ideas you would expect from JRPG titles like Final Fantasy and White Knight Chronicles, with barely much American vibe in there. Sonic isn’t even shown off as much of a die-hard badass like he usually is after that one stellar intro sequence, most of the time he’s just the passionate nice guy he is only without as much of the attitude. But with titles like the ones written by Graff and Pontac, the opposite almost seems to be taking place. Now Sonic almost feels like he has too much attitude, or at least EVERYBODY shares in the attitude. Sonic’s snarkiness and humor is important, but they seem to be pushing that full-throttle while his passionate and nice guy side is put to the back burner, as well as less emphasis on his “cool dude” aspect of his personality. The main concern that I see is that they need to focus less on tailoring Sonic for any one aspect of his personality and just try unifying him again so that he isn’t over-saturated in one area. So while we shouldn’t have a heavy anime-esque Sonic again, we could still do with a far less American-cynicist heavy Sonic like we’ve been seeing so far. I mean, I think it works in the Boom show given the events that happen around Sonic, but in games where something as huge as alien planets being captured or an entire planet is being drained of energy is happening, I don’t think it’s very fitting for Sonic to be so snarky to the point where he might not be taking ANYTHING seriously.

      On the topic of shows though, I would be curious towards a better Sonic anime some day, or at least an anime-inspired Western cartoon series. Like HOL pointed out, X was done by animators who were more well known for Western cartoons, so the overall look and consistent style of the show varied from pretty decent anime work to just barely not an American cartoon work half the time in terms of detail (so many lazily drawn shots). Something without a Chris Thorndyke-like character, taking place on Sonic’s world and playing around with it, effortlessly combining humor and drama into a solid narrative like seen with anime-inspired Western cartoons like Avatar and Teen Titans, a good use of the full list of cast members introduced over the years up to modern day, possibly better game story adaptions, or maybe even just center the whole anime around chronicling Sonic’s gaming adventures through a serialized format, with unique filler adventures here and there, a consistent voice cast with the games (like what they did with Sonic X and Shadow – Unleashed, only inversed) or at least let someone else cast them, like Funimation or something, kickass music, incredible art and animation (doesn’t have to be groundbreaking or anything, but at least better than how Sonic X was half the time, and my preference is kind of in traditional/digital 2D animation), and plenty of creativity and free reign to try different things without totally changing what Sonic is in a drastic fashion. Such an idea is a fantasy at best, but it is something I would hope to see become reality some day when the series starts picking up momentum again. Who knows, if Flynn vying for writing for the games doesn’t pan out, if such an opportunity as this ever came up I think he would be an excellent choice for main writer, as while writing for a show is different from writing for a comic series, it is still a bit closer in format and process than writing for a video game. And Flynn is a good writer overall, I think he’d be able to transition into any media he was interested in. But alas, one can only dream at this point.

5. I swear to Chaos, I just made a fan logo of Chronicles 2 and 3 and even suggested Atlus developing it just yesterday.

6. I’m personally of the crowd that hates Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood… but you know what? I’d love to see another RPG for Sonic. That game may have been poorly made in my eyes, but it had some concepts and promise that I think could be amazingly capitalized on in the future.

   I’d say it’d be nice for it to be an Action RPG, but the Sonic fanbase has had enough hack-n’-slash action.

   1. If another RPG were to be made, I think they should make an action RPG. I really feel like that would be the best fit for Sonic. It would be kinda neat if they made a game that mixed a bit of the upgrade and “open world” like mechanics from Adventure and the character switching of Heroes (just the character switching, not formations).

      1. Personally, I would love that. A great way to mix Sonic speed and RPG elements in. Besides, a game like this could have party members be a lot more useful and fun to switch to than say… Rise of Lyric. Just imagining fast Sonic combos, healing from Cream, truck-like damage from Knuckles, projectiles from Tails… it’d be cool.

   2. I’m surprised TheBLACKHOODEDGamer wasn’t fond of the DARK Brother HOOD. 😉

      1. HA! XD How true.

         1. 😉

7. I’m fine with another RPG either way, but for the love of god, please don’t make another soundtrack like Dark Brotherhood’s ever again. Old old 8-bit games from the 80’s sounded miles better.

8. Okay, I don’t care about what KIND of RPG it is, as long as it’s done right relative to that kind of RPG. Turn-based, Action, Xenoblade ripoff, I don’t give a care, just make sure it’s not broken like Chronicles was.
   What I care about is the story, and my thoughts on that are…
   DO. THE. COMICS.
   Seriously. If there’s anything that deserves fleshing out, it’s Flynn’s Post-SGW continuity. It would be an opportunity to show the true story of everything that happened before #252, it would bring a new retelling of classic Sonic stories (and not so classic) and, most importantly, it wouldn’t be total ASS because it would be Flynn. It would also be a perfect segway into the comics for those who haven’t read the 251 previous issues, 32 Knuckles issues, 16 miniseries issues, 15 Super Specials, etc.
   So basically yeah what I’m saying is that Post-SGW is aggressively good. Y’might have a bigger budget for the game, too, so you could fit some of the less-shit works of the other writers like Karl Bollers in there too as long as they also die later (essentially what I’m saying is I really like Finitevus).

   Art-wise, I don’t especially care. No need to overexert yourselves, just balance looking good and being cheap. It doesn’t need to look like Generations, especially if it’s on the 3DS.

   Audio is the part that stumps me. There isn’t a reliable resource to get any music from, and voice acting would mean they’d have to hire a LOT more actors. The fact that it’s an RPG also would mean there might be MORE music needed so as to not annoy players with how much story there is.

9. I’m down for a new Sonic RPG. I’ve never heard of the games in this arrival, but if SEGA did something right like thus, we could have a very popular spin-off series. Maybe to the extent of Riders and All-Stars Transformed.

10. Chronicles was mixed for me. I liked the story, the ways the characters were portrayed, and the fact that it drew attention to the relationship between Sonic and Amy, rather than just being there for comedic effect. Seriously, I think this is the closest to an “I love you, Amy” we’re ever going to hear from Sonic. (Outside of fanfics, of course.)

    However, it does have pretty big problems. The sound design is awful, with annoying sound effects, and a mostly awful soundtrack. The graphics look really awkward and cheap. And for an RPG, it’s surprisingly easy, especially if you have the common sense to add Cream to the party.

    Anyways, I always had this idea in the back of my head that if there were ever another Sonic RPG, then it should be a Mario RPG as well. Can you imagine a Mario and Sonic game in the style of Paper Mario, or Mario & Luigi? It’d be frigging awesome!

11. I personally think Sonic should have an MMO with a character builder as well as default characters. That way, everyone can be happy (ha ha) and Sonic has such a rich, massive world that barely really gets explored or mentioned in all media (this is more true for the games than anything, however).

    1. Now that you mention it an open world MMO with the gameplay of Unleashed/Generations would be great! Imagine running and jumping across mountains at full speed.

12. Ehh, I’d go with an Action RPG over a traditional, no offense but JRPG’s bore me to death and I don’t really feel like getting stuck in a level grind with Sonic characters yet again.

13. Errrr…I’m gonna ignore the fact that your post sounds waaay too much like a GameFAQS review of a bunch of low key JRPGS that comes off as blatant advertising and focus on the positives.

    You are correct, it would make more sense to hire a JRPG team with strong ties to SEGA and with ATLUS on their side, they literally have no excuse for Sonic to have sub-par RPG anymore….and yet, I wouldn’t be surprised if that happened anyway.

    NO, it’s not another jab at SEGA’s incompetence, though you just have to look at who they chose for their first RPG adapdation. Oh poor SEGA: like a dog chasing cars, they’re always going to chase whatever flavor of the month to help sell Sonic without ever stopping to think how it relates to the product that they’re selling. Their folly was to choose a bunch of overrated hacks who’s only selling point has been their brilliant branching storylines and world building (and riding the coat-tails of desperate Star Wars fans) but NOT their gameplay, which has often been either slow and plodding or a basic cover-shooter. Oh everyone can harp on and on and on about what a GREEEAT job Bioware did with trying to pay homage and expand the lore of Sonic…so much that they provided enough damnable evidence for Ken Penders to pursue his ridiculous lawsuit that almost tore The Archie Sonic Universe asunder.
    Good Boy, SEGA. Here, have a treat.

    But all of the great character development isn’t worth it without some engaging gameplay – Chronicles had the most boring and insulting Battle mechanics in an RPG ever and the overworld controls are horrendous. Even if you think the controls were compitent, does anyone really think a TURN BASED RPG is the best bet for a character best known for SPEED and MOTION? A character that was based on a PLATFORMING franchise? If you disagree, then none of you actually wants a Sonic RPG – you want a Sonic Visual Novel.

    Mario never had this problem, and as much as the gaming media would want to convince you otherwise, it’s not because Mario is somehow better than Sonic. The Mario RPGs work because those games came from studios that understood that first and foremost,the game has to feeel like a Mario title, and that meant including mechanics that felt at home in Mario’s platforming. It was more about making an RPG that played like a Mario game, instead of slapping Mario on to a a generic JRPG; yeah, SRPG: 7 Stars was sometimes guilty of that, but it was the guys behind Final Fantasy trying their hand out on a Mario title, so I’ll cut them some slack. And that is kind of a big point – you get a company that is comfortable with the material, not a big name that doesn’t know shit. So, while I agree with everyone that Sonic should always strike a good balance between Western and Eastern characteristics, a western studio will never do a Sonic RPG justice. No western studio can touch a Japanese studio when it comes to marrying a compelling narrative with fun game play mechanics, and above all else, if you want to convince people to play an RPG with Sonic, you need mechanics and controls that evoke the FEELING of playing a Sonic game, even if you’re playing an RPG.

    DESPITE EVERYTHING I SAID UP TO NOW – Going back to how you made this article into some advert for your favorite 3 JRPGS of the week, and how you think they can give a Sonic a better RPG opportunity. Like I said before, with any of these developers, Sonic would have no excuse to have a sub-par RPG like Chronicles…but would be an RPG worthy of Sonic? Would it be a great RPG that has the feel of a Sonic game or just a good RPG with Sonic slapped on top of it. So despite my love for Atlus and the Etrian fan in me loving the idea of Sonic in the Yygdrasil Labrynth, I don’t think ANY of the companies listed is worhty of making a SONIC RPG; no for that you need to think OUTSIDE the SEGA box and OUTSIDE the traditional RPG genre – Monolith Soft, Namco-Bandai,Tri-Ace and even Squenix if you’re really desperate. They’re all masters of JRPGS with engaging and exhilarating battle systems and creating fun, memorable worlds, something that is tantamount to ANY Sonic experience.

    Who cares if Sonic is probably speaking Japanese while doing JoJo poses in anime-like stories? What matters is how the game plays, right?

    Finally, if SEGA is hell bent on keeping this in-house, then there is only two men who needs to be trusted with this: Ryotaro Nanoka and Shuntaro Tanaka, the guys behind two of SEGA’s most underrated masterpieces, SKIES OF ARCADIA and VALKYRIA CHRONICLES. Yeah, it goes against all of the spiel i just mentioned, but I don’t see anyone else in SEGA’s disposal who can do any better than these two. I would rather see Sonic stuck in an RPG made by the guys who brought us The Blue Rogues then anyone else.

    And I’m finally done with this. I’m going to bed. Peace, I’m out, I’m Batman.

    1. Honestly I’d have mentioned Monolith and Overworks, but the former never worked with Sega sans Project X Zone (that was a Bandai Namco game anyway when all is said and done) and the latter is I think mobile focused if that.

       These are just the most relevant in the present (or near present for Imageepoch).

       1. hey, I thought this convo was closed already. Good to see this article getting hits.

          However, Monolith not having any ties with SEGA isn’t an issue. Even without the Project X Zone connection, Monolith is now an extension of Nintendo, who SEGA practically depends on. SEGA gets on their knees, Nintendo makes a call or two, and as long as it doesn’t interrupt their work on the Xenoblade series, Monolith can make a very ambitious Sonic RPG. However, while I have no doubt they can capture the feel of Sonic through the overworld exploration and story, the real test would be if they can make an active real-time battle systems that doesn’t feel like an MMO.

          Overworks now being relegated to mobile is not indicative of their proficiency, just maybe their overall strength…as well as another example of SEGA’s incompetence. If it saves SEGA money, they’ll get them to do it. But now that you mention it, being relegated to mobile could convince SEGA to make them do a traditional RPG mired with ads and freemium paywalls instead something more exciting.

          Personally, I would hand it to Tri-Ace, because I always felt the Star Ocean battle systems would be perfect for a Sonic battle system. Secondly, there was a GameFAQS user by the name of Magnum12 who utterly convinced me a Tales of Sonic game would work and i would buy it!

14. IMO the closest SEGA ever got to “idiomatic” Sonic RPG is PSO2. That entire game is about rushing through quests as fast as possible (Emergency Quests make you want to get as many runs as possible, and eventually player’s rushing mentality transfers into other quest types). Skill-based combat with wide variety of moves (some of Photon Arts look like they are taken straight out of various Sonic characters’ movesets, others are just cool or goofy-looking) works in a way that’s easy to learn and just do (just like in Sonic games, enemies by most part are slow and weak), but player can constantly improve and learn to do everything faster.

    It has platforming elements too… Sometimes… Not always enjoyable, though

15. I liked sonic chronicles and can’t stand most other RPGS. I felt like sonic chronicles was meant for hardcore sonic fans, with all the references to the past games, comic series, satam, sonic x, etc. it was a game that I couldn’t put down. I think if they made sonic into just another boring anime rpg to throw into the pile, it would be a complete failure.

16. I would chose Atlus all the way for this!

    Though also I hope they could inject more action to it (more than in Sonic Chronicles), I know we are talking about RPGs here but Sonic has always been an action packed franchise, I think a Sonic RPG is a great idea but the gameplay could take some inspiration from franchises like the “Tales of” series for example (if you don’t know what I mean just look in youtube for a combat video of Tales of Symphonia).

    Also I fully agree that Sonic should take back its japanese influence, I understand why so many people get really scared when someone mentions the words “Sonic” and “Anime” in the same sentence but it can’t be denied that Sonic has shonen roots and following that inspiration is how many of the fan-favorite Sonic stories were wrote, including both Sonic Adventure games, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Rush and Rush Adventure, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic & The Black Knight, etc., Pontac and Graff completely ignored these traits and look what they did with the characters and stories, Ian Flynn and co at least respected Sonic’s roots and do a much better job in the comics than Pontac and Graff, I say bring back the Sonic we all grew up with and dish this new “Sonic” that its major influence is the generic new american cartoon full of sillyness and randomness.

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